S4E4: Dr. Jeff Williamson – Crashing into Teacher’s Car + Squeezing RV Through Tight Tunnel (Transcript)

(sneak peek)

JEFF: I think I was about ten where we had
decided to go see the mountains, the black Hills of South Dakota. And we were
in a we were in a camper that was it was like a reno school bus camper

that my dad
tricked out. It was really cool.

And we got up to a
point and there were four or five other RVs pulled off and looking confused.
And we’re like, what’s going on here?

And so my dad
pulls over and we go walking up and we’re looking at and it’s like the only way
forward from there was through this cut tunnel, straight through the stone in
the side of the mountain.

And these other
RVs that were also pretty good size, they were sitting there afraid that they
didn’t have room to make it through. And my dad’s like, well, I think I can get
through there.

(intro music)

BHAVNEET: Welcome back to another episode of drive
with us podcast, a podcast where we explore driving cultures around the world,
by bringing on a new guest each episode, to talk about the crazy things they’ve
experienced on the road, who they are as drivers and how they became the
driver. They are today. I’m Bhavneet.

TARANJIT: And I’m Taranjit and we have another
great driver for you today.

Today’s driver is
Dr. Jeff Williamson from Illinois who shares with us about the time that they
had to squeeze an RV through a tight tunnel. And the time he crashed into his
teacher’s husband’s car.

BHAVNEET: Before we dive into a full introduction
for Jeff, just a quick reminder that this new season, we now have video. So if
you would like to watch our conversations with Jeff, head on over to the drive
with us podcast, YouTube. Or our Patreon for the full video episodes, the links
can be found in the show notes below

TARANJIT: and as always, we do truly appreciate
all your support and thank you for joining us in the car today. Whether it’s
an, a literal one or a figurative one with our guests, Dr. Jeff Williamson,
Jeff, is an executive coach, author of the power of 1 68 shaping moments and
father of three young adult children in their twenties and has been married to
his wife for almost 32 years. He has spent most of his career in higher
education as an administrator and business faculty member before starting his
own company CMG group in 2017

let’s meet today’s
driver.

(transition music) 

BHAVNEET: Welcome to drive with us podcast. Thank
you so much for joining us today.

JEFF: It’s going to be with you.

BHAVNEET: We’re so excited to talk to you about
your driving experiences. Since I know you’ve been to a bunch of different
countries, but before we drive into that there I go again, you know, I’m
already into those drivings and I’m like, look before we did. , let’s get to
know a little bit about your background of driving.

What are some of
the places that you’ve driven? Where are you currently?

JEFF: I presently live south of Chicago and
you S and that alone can be an interesting driving experience. I’m I’m about
45, 50 miles south of the loop, if you’re familiar with Chicago. And so the
closer you get to downtown, generally, the driving. Gets a little more
challenging and the traffic gets a little more crazy.

 But, , I’ve had some different driving
experiences as I’ve traveled for my work and other us cities. That, just can
really have a reputation all their own.

And when it comes
to, , highway and driving experiences, California is different than Houston, Texas.
That’s different from Dallas. That’s different from Boston and the tunnel and
everything. Sometimes it’s been fun sometimes it’s been terrifying depending on
how people are driving.

, those are some
hotspots that come to mind in the us, but I, I would get a couple of
experiences in, in other countries, whether I was riding shotgun, or, ,
trusting someone else with my life. I’ve had a few harrowing experiences that
may come up. We’re talking.

BHAVNEET: Before we dive into those experiences,
what would you say is your relationship with driving? Do you love it? Do you
hate it? Do you prefer being the driver?

JEFF: , I’m I always had travel being a
component of my work. And so I I’m one of those guys that I’m like, eh, I’m a
road warrior, , if there’s somewhere and it’s an eight hour drive away away,
I’m like, let’s go. , so I would be in the category of, I really don’t mind
driving.

 Depending on the environment, it could even be
relaxing sometimes it’s not, but, I generally like driving. If I’m in the car
with, two or three other people, I just assumed be driving as riding along. I’m
not sure I’m a good ride along guy because there’s no break on the, on the
other side, there’s no steering wheel, you know, so like, you know, sometimes,
so I’d rather have keep my own life in my own hands, I guess is the way I would
say it.

BHAVNEET: I know that feeling sometimes where
you’re sitting in the passenger seat and you’re like, oh my God, slow down.

JEFF: Yeah. I was like by myself, if we’re
about to have a incident, . I’m not a good ride along guy. I’m, I’m a better
driver.

BHAVNEET: Have you ever had a situation where you
were the passenger and you’re like, oh my God, I wish I never got in this car.

JEFF: Oh, yeah. Yeah. That was one of my
international trips I’ll try not to go way off and backstories, but I was in a
Subaru going up the Andes in the rainforest of Northern Peru. The roads were
not, when we think of roads, it was not like we would think roads here.

It was more like
you’re driving on a trail kind of. And, there were places where it was a tight
squeeze and a little skitzy. And, as we were why we were three or four hours a
week, you are in these, in these small four wheel drive vehicles, a group of
probably 20 of us going up to, to a project there and, , came to one spot where
it literally wasn’t wide enough for the car.

And we could not
get back. We couldn’t really back it up and we were kind of stuck. And so there
were some other people that had gotten stuck there and they had actually cut
some logs. It was like the rain had washed out across. Road as it were. And,
and it was so narrow that, so they were laying these logs, they had cut over
the part that had washed out so that we could hopefully drive over them.

There were like
six Subaru’s, so it was like creeping across that carefully. And at one point
we heard a crack like, it was just almost too much. But miraculously, we all
slowly got across that and, and headed on to where we needed to go, but that
was one of the more harrowing experiences I’ve ever had in a car.

And I was not
driving because the locals who were less terrified by driving up the mountain
trails in a car than we were. So probably the only reason we made it was thanks
to them.

BHAVNEET: It definitely feel like if you’re in
that kind of situation in foreign country, like on a mountain, it’s all locals.

JEFF: Right. They were our best hope, , and
they didn’t seem too shook up by it, but there were some nervous Americans
waiting on the other side because we had to take all our luggage out and
everybody had to get out. Of course, because we didn’t want any more weight on
that little plank bridge that they was driving over.

So it was an
ordeal for sure.

TARANJIT: Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I would be terrified.
Like you guys seem cross. I’ll stay over here.

JEFF: Yeah. Those kinds of , experiences make,
stop and go traffic on the interstate seem a little docile and no big deal. I
don’t usually have to worry about the road falling out from under me.

BHAVNEET: Now that we’ve heard one crazy story,
let’s start some other crazy stories. What would you say are your top three
craziest experiences?

JEFF: I mentioned one, when I was naming some
states and cities that have some interesting driving experiences. So, 15, 16
years ago, my family and I went out to Southern California, beautiful country,
beach but they tend to have a little traffic. And so we were there for a week
vacation.

We rented a car
and, there was a double thing that was just terrifying and amazing to me was, ,
I was used to traffic and I driven in most major us cities before, but in
California, apparently I found this out, like on the fly. It’s okay. When, when
cars are stopped on the interstate or, , stop and go, it’s okay for the
motorcycles to come father lying between them.

, with a whole
four inches to spare on each

BHAVNEET: Yeah.

JEFF: side of them, between. The mirrors on
the car. What, so, first of all, it was crazy, that we’re just, we’re just stop
and go and almost not moving in. And this guy comes flying by on a motorcycle.
That alone was death-defying, but then he popped a wheelie.

After he’s on his
back wheel, flying between these cars with almost no clearance on one wheel.
And I’m just like, he’s going to die. He is absolutely going to die a painful
death, but he, he kept flying out of sight and at least he lived that day. That
was the first and only time that I’ve had that happened to me on a interstate,
especially here in the states.

What’s was the
craziest thing I ever seen, I think, or at least one of them.

BHAVNEET: Other point, I feel like he’s just
showing off like, Hey, I can go. stuck.

JEFF: Yeah. It would have been bad enough if
you’d just go flying by, between us as we’re sitting there on the interstate,
but then he had to pop a wheelie to just show off. That was nuts. But Hey, he
was an outstanding motorcyclist because he didn’t kill himself. I think I’d be,
I’d be being troubled, trying to do that with no cars anywhere.

TARANJIT: Yeah. Well, the fact that he had the courage
to do that with like little clearance.

JEFF: I had the feeling, it wasn’t his first
rodeo on the Mo on the motorcycle, so I think he, he probably had put on that
performance more than once. So, he didn’t seem too worried about it, but man, I
was about to, I was about to flip my lid.

TARANJIT: Yeah. I actually experienced that for
the first time here in Maryland. I don’t think. The motorcycle is flying, like
the way you’re describing in California, but we were at a red light and there’s
like five or six cars in the line. This motorcycle is just like, I’m not
sitting in the back of the line and just moved to the front and just stopped in
between two cars.

 Just like, it’s my turn.

JEFF: I’m going to go now.

TARANJIT: Yeah.

JEFF: I’m a motorcyclist, but you’ll never see
me doing that. I just, I want to live to enjoy riding my motorcycle, not, , not
express any death wish or anything like that.

BHAVNEET: Exactly. What would you say is your
second craziest driving experience?

JEFF: That was hard to top, that in the, in
the, , cracking timber in the rainforest of Peru, , another one that probably
was, was just really frightening. I would put it in that way. W I was, , I was
a pretty young boy, probably. Eight nine years old. And, , my mom and I, and
one of my brothers were coming home.

It was after dark.
It was winter time. And it was, this is an Indiana where I grew up. We lived in
Southern Indiana that has a lot of Hills and valleys. And so the roads are not
just. Easy, straight shot all the time. My mom was driving and we suddenly hit
some ice. And so our car started spinning in circles, two or three, and it
seemed like 20 when you’re in it, but two or three full spins, then we went
over an embankment and. As a kid, I mean anybody, but certainly a kid where it
was terrifying.

And we, we slid
down this embankment and, , we came to rest against a rock that was in this
hillside with plenty of trees nearby. And so, Whatever you believe about
protection and something out there. Bigger than that, we, we just had a feeling
that our lives had been spared. My poor mom, , she, she was terrified trying,
with two of her four boys in the car.

So it was really
frightening. And my recollection is once the car came to a stop and. Realized
we’re going to be okay. She just burst into tears cause she was so frightened.
That was a scary kid reality. It wasn’t because mom or anybody did anything
wrong. We were just fortunate. There weren’t any other cars in the vicinity,
but we just hit some ice that hit, , water had run across the road and melt or
frozen rather.

And, , man, that
was a crazy ride. It’s one of those that’s just stuck in your mind. I mean, I’m
in my late fifties pushing 60, but I can remember that just like it was
recently because of that, those kind of things are just kind of burned in your
brain.

BHAVNEET: Yeah,

TARANJIT: have experienced driving

on ice before.

JEFF: Not fun, man.

TARANJIT: Ice is crazy. I’ve seen someone coming
in the opposite direction, hit a patch of ice, go onto the shoulder. There was
a snow pile. They drove up the snow pile over corrected and came straight at
me. And I was like,

BHAVNEET: I’m going to die

JEFF: it’s

BHAVNEET: today.

JEFF: Yeah. Yeah. You’re just like, well, been
a good ride. Here we go. I think this is it.

TARANJIT: Yeah.

JEFF: We’re all grateful that it didn’t play
out that way.

TARANJIT: Has that experience impacted you when
you went to start driving?

JEFF: Well, I, I think so. , in fact, when I
did start driving my first. Accident, which wasn’t anything serious, but it was
driving on ice, , a 16 year old. I’d probably had my license a month or less.
And know, you just learn as you go. And I never driven on ice. So I came around
the corner a little too quickly and just slid sideways into a parked car on the
street.

Nobody was in it.
Nobody was hurt, but still, that’s not a good thing to have your license for a
month and have to go home and tell your parents, you ran into somebody else’s
car that they knew. Oh my gosh. That’s worse.

And he was mad.
The old fellow that lived there came flying out of the house. I raid and what?
Some punk kid had run into his car and he was upset with me. And, he, he knew
my, his wife was my fourth grade teacher. If it could get any worse. Yeah. Yes.

BHAVNEET: Oh,

JEFF: There was nowhere to hide cause they all
knew who I was.

TARANJIT: Ice is kind of hard because it’s. It’s
not like you purposely drove super fast. You can’t control that. Sometimes it

JEFF: a

TARANJIT: just

BHAVNEET: happens.

JEFF: I was just goofball teenage boy
inexperienced. And didn’t really think about it until I started, going like
this with no control whatsoever over the car.

TARANJIT: Have you learned any, useful tips for
driving when there’s ice

BHAVNEET: or snow?

JEFF: Yeah, stay off the brakes, if at all
possible, the brakes are not usually your friend on ice and that I learned the
hard way more than once, just , ease up, slow down, let the accelerator, , be
your friend rather than thinking, oh, well I can drive like normal and just
slam on the brakes.

Well, you may well
end up over, over a hillside. Like we did that time.

TARANJIT: Yeah,

BHAVNEET: that’s

TARANJIT: a really good point. You can’t drive
like a normal sunny day, especially when it’s

BHAVNEET: on the

TARANJIT: ground.

JEFF: Well in 16 year olds, don’t seem to
realize that at least I didn’t.

TARANJIT: Yeah.

JEFF: that’s some splaining to do, as we used
to say.

BHAVNEET: speaking of, okay, so crazy driving
stories, you did mention, on your form An incident in South Dakota involving
driving through a

JEFF: Yeah Yeah. that’s that’s another, , boy
hood story. I was not driving. Thank goodness. , I think I was about 10 and
that, that scenario was my oldest brother. , had gotten married in North
Dakota. And when the wedding was over, we had decided to go , see the
mountains, the black Hills of South Dakota, and some of the beautiful country
there.

And we were in. We
were in a camper that was, , it, it was, it was like a renoed school bus camper
that my dad tricked out. It was really cool. I could do a whole show just on
the bus camper, but , that’s for another day. so we came up and if you’ve ever
been there or. Driving in the mountains.

It’s so steep in
places that people call me either hairpin roads or switch back. So you you’re
actually driving across the side of the mountain and then you make a hard turn,
right? And then you’re driving straight awhile and you make a hard turn left
and you just, , you hairpin your way up the mountain side.

So it’s slow going
anyway. And we had been driving up the mountain side for, for a long time. It
seems like, and we got up to a point in their words. Four or five other RVs pulled
off and looking confused. We’re like, what’s going on here? At first you think,
oh, there’s been an accident. And so my dad pulls over and we go walking up and
we’re looking at it.

And it’s like the
only way forward from there was through this cut tunnel, straight through the
stone in the side of the mountain. And these other RV’s that were also pretty
good size. They were, they were sitting there afraid that they didn’t have room
to make it through.

And, if you knew
my dad, , he, he was very smart. He could figure calculate. He was a
construction company builder, , so he could design homes and kitchens and all
kinds of cool things. So he was, he’s one of those guys that he can just he’ll
get his tape measure out

so he started
measuring, , the width and the height, and then we walked part way through and
measured some more. And it’s like the traffic’s going nowhere. Eventually, my
dad had checked the whole stone tunnel out. That was, it. Wasn’t just like 10
feet long. I mean, it was probably 60, 70 feet long once you went into it and ,
there’s no going back here once you go for it.

We eased up and
those, those other RVs, there were not having it. They’re like, no, we’re gonna
do it. And my dad’s like, well, I think, I think I can get through there. so we
eased up and, , I had a brother on each side was like the dog sticking their
head out the window, coaching him .

And I mean, it was
so close that they literally had to be there like spotters. So dad would ease
it up and they’d be like, whoa, you need to go left like two inches, and he
just ease up and, and that’s how we just slowly worked our way through that. It
was so tight at one point that the side mirrors on the bus were going.

You know, cause we
were at that tightest point where it was not. Going to have any space at all.
And so dad stopped and, and, you can rotate those mirrors in a little bit. And
my brothers, head out the window kept slowly siding it and we just inched forward
an inch forward an inch forward.

And eventually we
made it through the other side and, and I wish he could have seen the other
people on the other side, they started cheering and, and we’re excited. And
pretty soon they, they started coming through. They’re like, well, I think we
can do that too. So they got in their RVs and one by one, they started easing
their way through.

So we, you know,
and that’s, I mean, I love that story because it can be applied in. So.
Situations where, you know, somebody has to kind of take the risk and calculate
the cost and, and then you just have to go for it, , that was one of our
favorite dad’s stories. We love to tell he’s gone now, but that’s one of the
family favorites was, , dad could figure out just about anything far as we were
concerned.

And that day he
was. 10 feet tall, man. It was the hero.

BHAVNEET: that’s crazy. You

know, you gotta
take a little risk to get

a big reward.

JEFF: Yeah. And he, he had done the
calculations and he was pretty sure that that we could do it. It was going to
be tight. I mean, I, I got an RV, , had a rack on top. It may be put, bicycles
and suitcases and other things like that. We had to unload all that because it
was also super close the top, so we were just inching along.

Uh, both sides and
the top just barely enough to get through, but, that’s a pretty good family
metaphor for us, you can always get through it. You just got to figure it out
and make some adjustments, but we can always get through that tunnel, get to
the other side.

TARANJIT: Yeah,

it slowly and you

can make it.

JEFF: Yeah. Do do your homework, figure it
out, move slowly, but move forward. , and you can get through it.

BHAVNEET: On the flip side, I’d like to know who
decided to make that tunnel and be like, no is ever going to drive

through this.

JEFF: That’s, that’s fair. My guess is, this
is like in the area of Mount Rushmore, which of course was built over a hundred
years ago. My guess is probably at that time, the trucks were just a little
smaller and it, and they were thinking cars and, , more traditional trucks.

I don’t think
they. I pictured, 1970s RVs and bigger automobiles, because, I mean, I
guarantee you, they, I mean, nobody went up there in a semi-truck. It was like,
signs along the way, these types of trucks, not even a loud, but I suspect that
once you blast your way a hundred feet or 70 feet or whatever it was through,
uh, a stone mountain, you don’t want to go back and remodel too much, you know,
like, oh, we need to add four or five feet on that. Let’s go back and blow that
up again. Like, no, they can just not go up there, but we did.

BHAVNEET: You find a different way.

JEFF: Yeah. I think if we went back, we would,
we would probably not go that way.

TARANJIT: Yeah. Switching gears a little bit,
since you have been to so many different places, how would you describe the
drivers in those different places? Like if you had to profile a drivers in
those places, how would you

describe them?

JEFF: , I’ve been to several com countries in
south America, loved them, all love my brothers and sisters there. I would say
they drive a bit more carefree than some Americans.

BHAVNEET: Okay.

JEFF: When we were on that trip in Peru, and I
bet, , Guatemala and, , I can’t even think now quite a few different countries
in that region though.

And we, we would
chuckle when we were traveling there. , if you come to an intersection where
two roads cross each other here in the states, there’s either going to be a. A
stoplight or a stop sign. Well, they had stop signs there too, but the trend
was more as I’m. If I’m driving and I’m approaching this four way intersection,
I’m just going to blow my horn loud and slow down a little bit.

So they know I’m
coming through and, , instead of four way stop, we just said those are four way
goes. , it was like, you just lay on the horn and just go on through. And, and
I never saw anybody hit anybody. So I guess it works, but that’s a little scary
too.

TARANJIT: Like I’m

BHAVNEET: coming through.

JEFF: Yeah, . It’s like no pedestrian ride
away. There is like, get out of the way you got places to go. So that was, that
was interesting.

BHAVNEET: Yeah, I don’t think that would fly here
in the U.S.

JEFF: Right

No, know, there’s
that like to run

TARANJIT: definitely

JEFF: Cause they think they’re in a big hurry
and more important, I guess, than the rest of us that are stopping. But by and
large, that doesn’t happen here. , that was just the norm. You just you’d hear
it. You’d hear a horn honking and here they come, they’re coming through the
intersection.

 Us Americans just learned to watch listen and
be careful. I just like come on through brother it’s. Okay. Yeah. I, I’m not
that big of a, I’m not in that big of a hurry and I want to get T-bone, , just
cause I was here first.

TARANJIT: Yeah. would you describe the different
drivers? In the U S from the places

that you’ve been.

JEFF: there are. Different levels of
tolerance, and by that, I mean, , I’ve been in places and I won’t name cities.
Cause I know all have, you’ll have a wonderful kind listener that lives in that
city. And they’ll not be happy with me, but, but I was in a major city.

I’ll just say in
the Southwest, we’ll leave it at that. And I mean, I. The first time I flew in,
I was there for business and I had a rental car and I am not kidding you from
the time I got from the airport to my hotel, I had been flipped off. At least
twice. And I literally didn’t even know why. I don’t know whether I wasn’t
going fast enough and, , I’m a pretty good driver.

So I think I would
know, oh my bad, you know, I for, oh, change lanes too close, or, or I forgot
to turn on the turn signal. I mean, not literally. Well, people were angry and
waving their arms and flying the bird. And I’m like, I don’t even know why they
thought I did. And , there places are, to the Eastern part of the U S I’ll just
say that, you, you live in that region, so you can attest to perhaps, we’re
pretty quick on our horns.

When the light
goes from red to green, it’s like you get about the count of two and somebody’s
going to be on it. If you don’t start moving. , I I’ve softened some as the
years gone by, I become that guy that I’m just. If we both come rolling up to a
four way intersection and there’s there stop signs there.

I maybe got there
first, but I just I’m like, it’s okay, go ahead. I just, I just wave people
through. Cause there’s really, I mean, they’re not going to be mad at you when
you let them go first. Right. And instead of, instead of me letting that affect
my frame of reference , I’m just. , I’m going to get there five seconds later
because I let them go first and most people will, will wave and say, thanks.

And I just feel
better about that than, being like the, the start of a, of a drag race, , where
the light turns green and I got a charge in and it’s just not worth it to me.
And I’ve, and I’ve taught my kids. I have three young adult children.

They all pretty
much do that too.

TARANJIT: Yeah, I agree. I also, if I see someone
approaching at a four-way stop, I will go a little bit slower and be like, you
got there first. Go ahead. Because then you have an awkward moment of like,

BHAVNEET: no, you can go. It’s like, no, seriously
go.

JEFF: Yeah, absolutely. I will sometimes do
that. , where I’ll just , I mean, I would have stopped it’s I just, like you’re
saying, where I’ve just slowly ease up, so they’ve stopped and then I stopped
and so it’s clearer than it. Wasn’t a tie and I’m not a jerk, so I’m not gonna
try to beat him through the intersection.

 I can like be the nice guy now I wasn’t always
that way,

TARANJIT: It’s

also harder when
you are letting them go, but they’re like, they’re trying to let you go. And
you’re just like

now what?

JEFF: and I’m like, okay, I’ll just go ahead.
But if we’re both trying to be kind, I’m okay with that.

BHAVNEET: Yes, definitely.

JEFF: We need a lot more of that in our world.

TARANJIT: Oh

BHAVNEET: yes,

exactly. Especially
I think on the east coast, I feel like people are in too much of a hurry.

JEFF: . Yeah. I mean, I w I think we’re all
guilty of that sometimes just when we’re hurrying and having those times where
we’re trying to get ahead of the, the person that stop sign or get ahead of
them at the light, that’s really centered on me winning in this mentality that,
, well, I’ve got people to see and places to go, , I don’t get this false sense
of importance.

Self-importance.
It’s okay. I’m just a guy driving. Yeah, I got stuff to do, but , the earth is
not spinning on what I do in the next 10 seconds. So let it go. It’s okay. I’m
hoping I’ll live a little bit longer. Cause my stress levels are down.

BHAVNEET: Yeah, well, this is a good

segue diving into
what type of driver you are. So how you describe yourself as a driver? And
would you say that your and friends

would agree.

JEFF: I’m pretty sure they would agree that, ,
the four way stops, I’m waving people through and I’m generally pretty, pretty
considered that way. Now true confession is good for the heart, , I’m not as
good and patient on the interstate. I’m not sure why that is. Maybe it’s just
because it’s higher speed.

Are there more,
there’s more volume of traffic, but , I, I I’m like most people, I have a
couple of pet peeves and, and I, , have to really work at the inpatient if,
driving down a two lane interstate and there’s a car and the speed limit and
then I’m going 70 in a little bit.

There’s a car just
moseying along at about 65 in the left lane. I’m like people, you can go 65 if
you want to, but get over it’s not, it doesn’t have to be like the Autobahn,
but when there’s me and six cars behind me, because somebody is, doing a sing
along with their favorite music and I’m like, Come on, you got to wake up
enough to get over.

So that’s, that’s,
I’m not the only person that feels that way because I see that all the time,
you know, people are like, cause somebody is blocking the interstate. So I’m
sometimes impatient. They’re on the interstate and especially my wife. I get a
little impatient on the interstate. , if I feel like the road could be clear,
the traffic could be moving.

If somebody would
just have a better awareness of where they’re at and that kind of thing. So I’m
not a road rage guy or anything, so I don’t like bump them or, or do anything
terrible like that. I’m just like talking to myself in the car sometimes. .

, I don’t flip
people off.

I don’t, , in
fact, and this kind of goes back to the four way stop thing. If somebody thinks
I’ve done something wrong, maybe I have, , if, if they’re irate or they’re
giving me, , the eyeball as they go by, I’ll just smile and kind of give them a
forest Gump wave. Sorry, my bad, , I mean, why climb the ladder with him?

You know, I’m just
like, hi, sorry. Yeah, I screwed up there. You’re going to have to be mad
alone. Cause I don’t want to do that.

TARANJIT: Yeah.

JEFF: People don’t know what to do they’re
angry and you just smile and go.

TARANJIT: Yeah.

JEFF: It’s my weird sense of humor. I’m just
like, That’s more fun than just giving it back to them.

TARANJIT: Confuse them out of anger.

JEFF: They’re like, a lot of times they’re
like they just go on cause they don’t know what to do. It’s like, you’re not
being angry back at angry me. So they just keep driving. I’m like, see ya. I
got nothing to be ashamed of.

TARANJIT: Speaking of left lane. I know a lot of
states why don’t know a lot, but I know a couple of states have laws were not
allowed to drive in the left lane unless passing Maryland not have that law.
Therefore drivers love sitting in the left lane

JEFF: Yeah, I believe that India, I lived, I
just live about 30 minutes from the Indiana Illinois line. So I’m frequently
from where I am going down, Indianapolis, . I believe there is an Indiana law,
that you can be pulled over if you’re, , creating a hazard, delaying the
traffic but.

I don’t have a
feeling that that many people are getting pulled over for that when it first
came out. I don’t know, maybe a couple of years ago, I think they, , they, they
tried , it was publicized that this is a new law and you need to get over and
you can be. , stopped and given a warning or a ticket.

 Illinois definitely doesn’t have a law like
that, that I know of. It’s a good intention to give it a try and say, Hey,
people move over. But I just don’t think it really is going to help.

TARANJIT: I just wonder, because I was so amazed,
we drove up to Boston for the first time and I don’t know the drivers. So
train, I guess, expression like New Jersey area that they go in the left lane,
then they all just move over and I’m like,

JEFF: Beautiful thing. Oh my goodness. Yeah.
I’m just like, it seems like it’s like one out of five drivers that are in the
left lane seem to understand that, but God bless New Jersey. If they’re, ,
they’re doing a good job with that. Shout out to New Jersey. I’m rarely
anywhere where I feel like they’re really aware of

TARANJIT: , in terms of other drivers and road
rage and all that, would you consider yourself someone who honks or is a
honker?

JEFF: I used to be worse about being a honker
and I really been working on that, like if I’m at a stop sign or I’m going to
stop light where if somebody is looking at their phone and the light turns
green, I literally will start counting in my head so that I’m aware to not be
too fast, , and be like,

and about by about
three or four, if they still haven’t moved out yet, let’s do one a little, I
don’t, I don’t lay on it or just blast them on school, maybe they’re like, oh,
No. Sorry. So I’ve gotten better. That’s been an area of growth for me. I used
to be a horn guy more than I am, , these days.

I

BHAVNEET: feel like we

all have those
moments

JEFF: I do. It’s like, come on, man, bro. You
gotta, you gotta drive. , if you wanna read your phone, pull over and read it
for hours. I don’t care, but don’t do both of them on the road.

BHAVNEET: you did hint at this earlier, but is
your biggest

driving peeve?

JEFF: It’s a, it’s a close, close race between
the, the slow drivers in the left lane. And the people driving in 85 who were
absolutely totally on their phones and doing the up, down, up, down, up, down,
up, down and driving. Way over the speed limit where, I mean, I sincerely just
think you’re going to kill somebody.

, it’s one thing
to be a knucklehead and be going, , 65 and a 70, just because you don’t like to
drive fast. I’m like get over. But, I really do have a sensitive spot when I
see the high-speed drivers who are obviously more engaged with their phone than
they are driving.

TARANJIT: At that point, it’s like, if you want to
be on your phone don’t drive.

JEFF: Right, I mean, I, I could get in a lot
troubles given other perspectives on that, but that, that really concerns me
when I see that.

TARANJIT: I know you mentioned you don’t get road
rage yourself as as much. , have you ever had an instance of road rage of where
someone had it towards you?

JEFF: I probably have, thankfully it’s
probably not been anytime recently because I’m a little more patient than myself,
although I’ve got room to grow, but, , I suppose it would go back to that
Southwest city, , where, somebody is tailgating you and honking their horn and
flipping you off and yelling at you animals.

Sorry. I didn’t
see you, bro. , I’m my bad. , but I’ve never really had, , where somebody is
like bumping me and, , and swerve and in front and if I see somebody that’s
going down that pathway, I just ease back on the speed and just try to create,
let them, let them have some distance between them and me.

Cause I don’t, I
don’t have any interest in that . It’s just silly. Somebody is going to get
hurt.

BHAVNEET: I agree. I don’t see the point that it’s
not anyone.

JEFF: No, and I do get frustrated and a lot of
people get frustrated, different settings, , when they’re driving. But, , when
it, when it gets at that level, I’m just like, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll either exit the
highway or I’ll just ease back the speed to where they’re not gonna go that
slow so they can circle back and be mad at me.

TARANJIT: Yeah, just give them their space.

JEFF: Yeah. Yeah. It’s like, ah, who knows
what’s going on in their life? And they maybe got in the car with a really bad
situation at home, or they just got fired from work and it’s not, it’s not
totally something I did. That’s just like, that was the last straw. And I
happened to be on the way. So, I just try to give them the space to move on and
not engage.

TARANJIT: How would you describe your actual
driving test experience?

JEFF: Because I was able to have that driver’s
ed. Course, , I think we had something like, , 15, 20 hours behind the wheel
with an instructor on the other side. And he actually, it was a car actually
built for that. He had a steering wheel and a break over there on the other
side. So he could save us from impending doom if he had it.

 But I think, I think I just hit, , the certain
number of hours of driving and, and just once we had successfully completed the
required hours of driving, I didn’t have to actually go, and do a T a driving
test at the license bureau, , was just able to take it. The certificate.

I completed this
driver’s education course at the high school, gotten the hours that are
required. And so I just went to the drivers branch and got my, my new driver’s
card and away I went.

TARANJIT: Oh, wow. Really? That’s interesting.

JEFF: Yeah. I don’t know. Now that that’s so
much an option. I think when my son started driving, we did like a summer
driving school and it was kind of similar to that. Where if you did the
classroom and the hours of driving and all the checked, all those boxes, then
you could basically, I think in that driver’s education, they.

Pretty much did
the driving test of, parking and stop and start so, they kind of farm that out
to the schools and the driver’s education companies

TARANJIT: That’s interesting. So driver’s ed we
only got six hours with the driver’s instructor and I wouldn’t, I don’t think I
would trust if you just did driver’s ed and got your license here, because I
feel like they don’t teach it as well. And it doesn’t really tell your skills as

opposed to like
when you go in the actual driver’s test, but it seems like more hours on the
road with the instructor.

So it

was a little
different.

JEFF: Did you have to go actually to the
drivers branch and do a test drive there with someone?

TARANJIT: Yeah. And they also had, they had like
reverse parking forward parking parallel parking all of it

JEFF: Yeah. Now you don’t have to worry about
parallel parking. If you have a newer car

TARANJIT:

Speaking of a
newer cars, the possibility of self-driving cars becoming a thing. self-driving
cars and what’d you get in.

JEFF: I, I’m not so much afraid of the
technology as I just, , I like driving. So I don’t know. I would, I would
probably be someone to be like, well, I don’t want to just ride, , if we’re
going to be in a car going so. , but I liked the fact that, , the technology
has enhanced safety so much that, if you get lane drift or at a lot of
magically brake, if you’re getting too close to someone, I mean, I like some
features like that where I can, , I can be driving and then if I want, I can
that, , cruise control might be more than just like the controlling the speed
of the car.

 So I think I would kind of enjoy a mix of that
just because I don’t totally want to just like sit back and take a nap and wake
up and I’m there I’m, , change is hard. So I think it would take some getting
used to, but man, I mean Domino’s is delivering pizza. So how bad can it be?
Right.

TARANJIT: I don’t know if I would compare it to
that.

JEFF: Yeah, I was , I’ve lived long enough to
see a lot of cool stuff and new technology. That’s pretty commonplace now, ,
that wasn’t even imagined 20 years ago or 10 years ago. One of my life, mantras
is never seen that. , because I just don’t have all the information, what
life’s going to be like in five, 10 years.

And so I might
say, well, I’ll never get in one of those car, , but I mean, , with the
technology continuing to emerge, they might, , be safer than us humans driving.
I don’t know. , I don’t know that I I’ve seen enough to be confident of that,
but I think it’s coming. I mean, , the Wright brothers.

nut cases for a
long time, right. Until they did fly. And then it was like, oh yeah, people fly
all the time. Now what’s the big deal. I’m not saying, , first time in flight
is the same thing as a self driving vehicle. But you, you see what I’m saying?
It’s like, , there are things that we can’t envision right now.

And because of
that, we might tend to be a little nervous about it, but that doesn’t mean that
it might not be a really safe, secure option in the future. So, so I just never
say never, we’ll see

BHAVNEET: Yeah, I agree. I, I would have to see it
in action so to . speak.

JEFF: Yeah, we learned from experience. When
we see, , I’d probably be one of those guys. If, if I could get in a, , a
self-driving car and have it take me around the Indianapolis 500 for a few laps
with two or three other self-driving cars. And, , if I do that, I’m like,
Nothing went wrong there, , that’s kinda like driving down the interstate.

So I think we
progress a lot of times we learn progressively and we get comfortable with
things progressively, , to where we can kind of try them out and see, and like,
well, that wasn’t so bad, I mean, part way, there, we have cars that are self
breaking that self-correct, or, , if we drift out of our lane and whatever.

That’s partly
self-driving technology right there. Cause it helps us, , have a safer driving
experience. So I suppose at some point I can just figure it all out.

BHAVNEET: Bonus question time. Are you ready?

JEFF: Oh, here it comes. Drum roll.

BHAVNEET: time Are you ready

If you could make
a one new driving law?

What would

it be?

JEFF: I think that it would go back to that
whole left-hand lane thing. , if, if we could, if it would really happen, That,
, that the, the, the pace in that passing lane could really, truly only be
people passing cars and not someone just lost, , in the radio , I think that
one would, that would improve my life.

That’s a pretty
easy one, I guess, but that, that would be a big one because that’s, that’s one
that I still have to work at to be patient.

TARANJIT: Yeah,

it would have to
be enforced more in order for it to

BHAVNEET: work.

JEFF: Right. That’s the key, , there are laws
now for that, but, , if you could like find some way for self-driving cars to
have a component that they have a sensor behind them and. If there’s a car, if
they’re holding up a car behind them, then it would automatically accelerate
and pass and pull over.

Maybe that’s a
better answer is merging. Get out of the left lane with self-driving technology
and the car could sense that you’re holding up 10 cars behind you and gets you
out of the way safely.

BHAVNEET: in meantime, we need to figure out what
New Jersey is doing or what the Northeastern drivers are doing actual

JEFF: Yeah. I mean, maybe they’re just good
people. They just have figured out that life’s better when you get over and
don’t block the passing lane. But folks here in the Midwest had haven’t seemed
to figure that out too much yet. So we’ve got some things to learn from our
friends in New Jersey.

TARANJIT: Do you have any final thoughts or any
tips that you would like to give

BHAVNEET: other

TARANJIT: drivers?

JEFF: be patient be kind. I have to work at
that one. , it’s not about me. Whether it’s driving or anything else. It’s,
somebody’s mom, dad, brother, sister, and it’s not worth, , hurting or killing
somebody so that you think you, you should get there faster. So I have to
remind myself that too, , it’s like, eh, it’s probably not going to matter if
you get there five minutes later.

Cause if you don’t
get there at all, So, yeah, Jeff needs to work on patience and kindness too. So
I’m not prescribing a prescription that I don’t need.

BHAVNEET: . I

TARANJIT: agree with that because everyone is not
like just you, who has something going on, everyone has something going on and
you never

JEFF: Right. And , maybe they are really,
maybe someone they love is sick and they aren’t racing to the hospital, so get
over it on the left lane so they can get that family member the hospital.

TARANJIT: Before we let you go, where can
listeners you , if they want to connect with you.

JEFF: Sure. , my business is, CMG group, Inc.
And the website is coach mentor guide.com. And I do executive coaching and
people development, and a lot of one-on-one work training teaching. Corporate
organization, small group, those kinds of things. So they can go to coach,
mentor, guide.com, check it out, learn about what we do and how to connect if
they’d like to have a conversation.

BHAVNEET: Thank you so much for joining us today.
It was really fun talking with you about your driving

experiences.

JEFF: Yeah, I’ve had, I’ve laughed a lot this
last hour or so, so y’all have been fun and, , thanks for having me.

 (transition music)

TARANJIT: Jeff was such a sweet person to talk to.
I loved how kind and caring he was. Other drivers and that he didn’t want to
outright point names of which types of drivers he saw in which cities and
states here. Just like if you’re from that area, you’ll probably know what I’m
talking about.

BHAVNEET: my favorite part was that.

Not necessarily
about states, but like how he was kind to all drivers, even if someone is super
angry or has road rage, or is like trying to like give them the eye or
something. He would just like smile and give them a forest Gump wave. Like I. I
have a good day.

I’m not angry.

TARANJIT: I feel like that would, if someone is
angry and they see that, I feel like it would calm their anger down, you know,
even if just a little bit.

Cause if you see
something unexpected, then you’re like, , it like takes that anger. Away for a
little bit. And then you’re like, wow, I don’t really need to be this mad about
this situation.

BHAVNEET: I mean, some people, I feel like, like
he said would just be confused. Like, wait, what, why are you not mad also?

Like, huh. And
then just be like confused as a drive by you. And hopefully then they calm
down. But like, I feel like confusion would probably be the first thing that
goes over.

TARANJIT: Oh, yeah. And his advice at the end was
something that was just so powerful about that you should learn to be patient
when you’re driving, because you never really know who’s in that car.

That’s like beside
you, in front of you, behind you and to not take your aggression on those
drivers. Because again, it could be someone’s mom, dad, brother, or sister.
It’s like a good lesson to learn that next time you are in a stressful
situation on the road, just to remember that that other person in that car is
also human and life can get crazy for everyone.

So you don’t know
what they’re going through. You might be going through a rough time and they
might be having a good time right now. Like it doesn’t justify you to put your
anger on the other person who has no idea what is going on in your life. Right.

BHAVNEET: Exactly. And he was also big enough to
admit like, you know, even he himself has to work on some things like honking ,
that being the first reaction, but like we all can improve and just be better.

And maybe just do
just wave at someone if they’re angry and maybe then maybe they won’t be

mad back at you

TARANJIT: Just make it common practice just to
like throw in a wave here and there on your daily commute, it might make
someone’s day.

BHAVNEET: Well, that was Dr. Jeff Williamson. We
hope you enjoyed hearing his driving stories and be sure to stay tuned until
the end of this episode, to hear a sneak peek of next week at posole with
driver

Chris,

TARANJIT: who shared about the time that he
hitchhiked in Nepal got his van stolen in Australia and much.

BHAVNEET: Thank you for tuning in this week. And
if you enjoyed this podcast, you can help support the show by sharing it with
your friends subscribing or leaving us a review. It truly does help us get
discovered.

TARANJIT: Thank you for choosing to drive with us
and we’ll see you next week.

(outro music)

CHRIS: I did go to Australia and I bought, well, first I worked at a wine harvest and then when I finished the

wine harvest, I bought a van and it was a 1990s Ford Econoline. It was one of those commercial vans, and it had manual steering, and it was a manual gear shift.

I don’t know how to talk about cars, but, it was a manual and and I didn’t know how to drive that.

And so I have this really funny memory of taking it to a mechanic and the mechanic gives me the keys and I’m trying to drive it out of the parking lot and I keep stalling it. And the mechanic’s just with his arms crossed, looking at me like, ah, are you sure man?

and I was like, no, it’ll be cool. It’s cool. And I just kept driving, rolled it out of the mechanic shop, went to a roundabout, and just kept rolling it through like, no, I can’t stop. Everybody make way for me.